金币
UID132108
帖子
主题
积分7672
注册时间2013-8-9
最后登录1970-1-1
听众
性别保密
|
发表于 2019-8-1 14:29:06
|
显示全部楼层
我转个丁香园的帖子(而这个丁香园的帖子是转自ISPE论坛的),主要是说一个YES/NO不能定义出对产品质量的影响,也不能确定后续的措施,而且是个非常耗时、费力的工作,对于一些复杂的设备,比如水机,如果你去看部件清单,200个以上的部件。哪家公司在CCA的时候把200个部件都进行了评估?部件评估需要将部件拆分到什么程度?另外CCA这个东西是从部件出发进行评估,但如果根据工艺、法规,系统上应该配备这个部件,但部件清单上根本就没有,这时候你如何识别这个风险,因为做CCA评估,部件是你唯一的出发点?
----------------------------------------------------------(以下转自丁香园431版主的帖子)
转引ISPE论坛帖子和COP帖子内容,期待深入讨论。。。
-------------------------
Interestingquestion but...too late. The Baseline Guide 5 Impact Assessment was an epiphanyin its day - 2001- as the first widely used "risk assessment" todetermine the scope and extent of qualification. But in a post-Q9 environment,not totally adequate anymore.
有趣的问题,但是。。。。太迟了。ISPE基准指南第5卷的影响性评估是它自己的时代的顿悟——2001年——第一次广泛使用“风险评估”来确定确认的范围和程度。但是在ICH Q9之后的环境下,已经不再适用。
Fundamentally, the Impact Assessment is a"bottom-up" approach, looking at the equipment and not really at theprocess. A yes or no question does not identify the risks to quality nor thecontrol strategy for managing them. Even if both system- level andcomponent-level assessments are done diligently (and the component level isvery long and arduous when you have to do it for every component of every pieceof equipment) you still do not end up with an understanding of what can gowrong, the implications of that, and how likely it is.
本质上,影响性评估是一种“自下而上”的方法,着眼于设备而不真正在工艺上。一个YSE或NO的问题既不能识别出对质量的风险,也不能识别出管理风险的控制策略。即使勉强地完成了系统级和组件级的评估(并且组件级评估是非常冗长、费力的,你不得不对每一台设备的每一个组件进行评估),你最终仍然没有理解什么地方会出问题、它的影响、以及可能性多大。
A more "current" approach is definedby ASTM E 2500, that depends on actual risk assessment (and an FMEA is not theonly choice of tools) to evaluate the PROCESS and determine theengineering-based controls (designs) required to effectively manage the risks.These built-in controls are called Critical Aspects by the ASTM, and form thebasis for both engineering designs and qualification ("verification perthe ASTM) plans.
一个更加“现代的”方法是ASTME2500定义的,根据实际的风险评估(并且FMEA不是唯一可以选择的工具)来评估工艺、决定有效管理这些风险的工程上的控制(设计)。这些内在的控制在ASTM中叫做“关键方面”,并形成工程设计和确认计划的基础(ASTM中叫verification)
Unlike yes/no checklists, the resulting riskassessments and control strategies can be (should be) used as a"living" reference, updated over time as more experience and processknowledge identifies improvement opportunities.
不像YES/NO的检查清单,这种风险评估和控制策略可以(也应当)作为一种“动态的”参考,当更多的经验和工艺知识识别出改进机会的时候随着时间而升级更新。
So my LONG answer( sorry) to your question is:don't bother with Impact Assessment, use your time to better advantage byassessing your process.
因此,我对你的问题的长长的回答就是:不要再费心影响性评估了,把你的时间更好地用在评估工艺上吧。
|
|